Complete Segment | Free One Million Minds : Dr. Symeon Rodger

segment overview

​This segment delves into the connection between personal growth, ancient wisdom, and modern self-development. Dr. Symeon Rodger and Jamie Meyer discuss the integration of Tai Chi, Qigong, and other practices with contemporary insights into psychology, emotions, and spirituality. The conversation explores how physical movement and meditation foster personal transformation, emphasizing the importance of internal engagement over external mimicry.
Key themes include the role of simplicity in personal growth, balancing intellectual understanding with embodied experience, and the need to embrace a unique path of development. The segment also touches on how dissonance can drive change and encourages returning to foundational principles to avoid complexity. Overall, it advocates for a holistic approach to transformation, integrating mind, body, and spirit for authentic progress.

Guest Links : Dr. Symeon Rodger

The Resilience Code: https://www.resilientlifecode.com/optin
Website: https://www.drsymeonrodger.com
YouTube:  @dr.symeonrodger9163 

Book, The 5 Pillars of Life: Reclaiming Ownership of Your Mind Body and Future.https://www.amazon.com.au/Pillars-Life-Reclaiming-Ownership-Traditions/dp/0973873418

dialogue summaries & resources by chapter

chapter one
​The flow paradox : tai chi & qigong beyond ABUNDANCE 

Duration | 4 minutes 34 seconds
Complete Segment Time Stamp | 00:22

Synopsis
In this chapter, Dr. Symeon Rodger shares his reflections on a challenging topic he encountered while preparing for the 2024 World Qigong Summit. He critiques the premise that practicing Tai Chi and Qigong inherently leads to abundance, emphasising the need for a broader understanding of their benefits. Dr. Rodger explores how these practices can cultivate flow and harmony on physical, mental, emotional, and spiritual levels, while also addressing their limitations in transforming ingrained scarcity mentalities.

Dialogue Summary
Dr. Symeon Rodger: 
Learning your everyday movements—how to incorporate these internal dynamics in such a way that they solve some of life’s natural problems, many of which arise because we’re not living in the present moment. Our mental attention is scattered in 3,000 directions.
Since I was a teenager—or even earlier—I’ve been intensely interested in life itself, spiritual life, and the big questions: Why are we here? What is this about? How are we meant to live? We aren’t born with an owner’s manual for life, right? Or are we?

We assume our parents have that manual, but by the time we’re in our teens or twenties, we often discover that if they had one, it was defective. Then we realise there are so many versions of this manual out there. If such a mythical manual for life does exist, trying to find the right version—or even just a better version—becomes a challenge for everyone.
I’ve spent my life exploring this challenge. I’ve test-driven ancient spiritual traditions for decades, studying Tai Chi and Qigong for over 40 years and teaching worldwide for about 18 years. Alongside these practices, I’ve focused on mindset and peak performance: How do we get the best out of ourselves? What’s holding us back?

I’ve approached these questions from as many perspectives as possible. But I also recognise that the sheer number of perspectives can be intimidating for people.

Chapter One : The Flow Paradox: Tai Chi & Qigong Beyond Abundance

Jamie Meyer: 
Could you share more about the challenge you faced with your summit topic?

Dr. Symeon Rodger: 
Oh, absolutely. The issue was the topic itself. This was for a virtual event, the 2024 World Qigong Summit. Tai Chi and Qigong practitioners are likely familiar with the idea of “flow,” but this year’s topic--abundance through living in the flow—threw me.
The assumption behind this topic seemed flawed to me. It implied that practicing Tai Chi and Qigong automatically leads to a life of abundance. As someone who enjoys questioning conventional ideas, I felt this premise didn’t hold up.

Yes, if Tai Chi and Qigong are practiced correctly—and very few people truly do—you can achieve real flow on physical, mental, emotional, and spiritual levels. However, this does not necessarily translate to overcoming a scarcity mentality, which is often inherited from parents and culture. To address that, other methods might be more effective and efficient.

Credits Roll

References
Tai Chi is an ancient Chinese martial art that focuses on slow, deliberate movements and deep breathing. It’s known for its health benefits, including improved balance, flexibility, and stress reduction.
The Essence of Tai Chi Chuan: The Literary Tradition by Ben Lo and Yang Jwing-Ming
This book delves into the foundational principles and philosophy of Tai Chi Chuan, offering a deeper understanding of its movements and internal practices.

Qigong is a holistic practice that involves coordinated movements, breathing exercises, and meditation, aimed at cultivating and balancing the body’s vital energy (Qi).
The Healing Promise of Qi by Roger Jahnke
This book provides a comprehensive guide to Qigong and its applications for health and healing. It explains how to tap into the body’s energy to restore balance and improve well-being.

Flow is a psychological state of complete immersion and focus, often experienced during activities that are intrinsically rewarding. It is characterized by full involvement, a sense of control, and enjoyment, leading to peak performance.
Source: “Flow: The Psychology of Optimal Experience” by Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi.

Reading Recommendations
The Creative Habit: Learn It and Use It for Life by Twyla Tharp emphasises how consistency and practice help to unlock creative potential.

chapter two
​The origins of tai chi : tradition and transformation 

Duration | 4 minutes 49 seconds
Complete Segment Time Stamp | 01:54

SynopsisIn this chapter, Dr. Symeon Rodger delves into the historical evolution of Tai Chi, tracing its roots to the Chen style and its transformation during the late Qing dynasty. He explains how Yang Lu Chan, a master of combat Tai Chi, simplified and slowed the practice when teaching it in Beijing, creating the version of Tai Chi widely known today. Dr. Rodger critiques this adaptation, emphasising that while it serves as a beneficial health exercise, it represents only a fraction of the original martial art’s potential.

Dialogue SummaryDr. Symeon Rodger:
Tai Chi is usually taught in a very, very slow mode. There are four primary schools of Tai Chi—some people count five—and while the forms may look a little similar or quite different, they all share a common structure.
Typically, there are two forms. The first, called the “first form,” is slower and is the one most people are taught initially. The second form, developed for combat, is much faster and has distinct characteristics. However, over 90%, possibly 99%, of people studying Tai Chi worldwide never see the fast form, let alone practice it.

This divergence originates from a fascinating period in history. In the late 1800s, during the final decades of the Qing dynasty, Tai Chi was introduced to Beijing. The foundational style of Tai Chi, Chen style, originated in the Chen village. Yang Lu Chan, who would later found the Yang style, was invited to teach in Beijing.

However, he was reluctant to teach authentic combat Tai Chi to the Qing dynasty officials, who were Manchu rulers and considered outsiders by the Han Chinese majority. To avoid compromising his art, Yang Lu Chan simplified the movements, slowed them down, and taught this adapted version instead.
The result was that this simplified, slow version became the widely recognised “Tai Chi” practiced globally. While it has its merits, especially for health and relaxation, it does not represent the complete martial art.

Jamie Meyer:
So, what you’re saying is that what the general population knows as Tai Chi isn’t actually Tai Chi?

Dr. Symeon Rodger:
It’s certainly not the whole of Tai Chi. It’s just a tiny surface-level portion of it, done in a particular way.
There’s nothing wrong with practicing the slow form—it has specific uses. But it’s essential to understand the internal dynamics: the physical, energetic, and breath dynamics. When integrated properly, even the slow form can be effective.

The sad part is that most people don’t engage with these deeper dynamics. Still, Tai Chi works well as a health exercise, and that’s great. That’s primarily how I teach it. If I wanted to teach someone martial arts, I’d go with Krav Maga or Wing Chun—faster and more devastating to learn.

Credits Roll

References
Four Primary Schools of Tai Chi
Tai Chi (or Taiji) has developed into several styles over the centuries, each emphasizing different aspects of the practice. The four primary schools are:
1. Chen Style: This is the oldest and original style of Tai Chi, dating back to the 16th century in Chen Village, China.
• Characteristics: It is known for its combination of slow, flowing movements and fast, explosive actions (known as fa jing), which make it distinctive from other Tai Chi styles. Chen style also emphasises deep stances, intricate footwork, and a more martial approach.

2. Yang Style: The Yang style is the most popular and widely practiced form of Tai Chi, developed by Yang Luchan in the 19th century.
• Characteristics: It is characterized by its gentle, smooth, and continuous movements with a focus on relaxation and the cultivation of internal energy. The Yang style is often considered more accessible to beginners due to its less physically demanding nature compared to Chen style.

3. Wu Style: This style was developed by Wu Yuxiang in the 19th century and is closely related to Yang style.
• Characteristics: Wu style features small, compact movements and a higher stance, focusing on softness, balance, and precision. It is often described as more subtle and meditative compared to other styles.

4. Sun Style: Created by Sun Lutang in the early 20th century, this style blends elements of Tai Chi with Xing Yi and Bagua, two other internal martial arts.
• Characteristics: Sun style emphasizes light, agile movements with a focus on both internal and external coordination. It features a unique “running step” and is particularly known for its focus on health benefits and joint mobility.

Chen Style Tai Chi is the foundation of all other Tai Chi styles. Its movements are typically divided into two categories:
• Slow movements: Like other Tai Chi styles, these movements promote relaxation and mindfulness.
• Fast movements: Chen style incorporates bursts of speed and explosive force, also known as fa jing, which is a key feature that distinguishes it from other styles.
The practice of Chen style emphasises strong foundational stances and dynamic transitions between soft and powerful movements.

Yang Style Tai Chi style is the most commonly practiced form of Tai Chi worldwide. It is marked by its slow, flowing movements that are designed to promote relaxation, improve balance, and cultivate inner peace. Compared to Chen style, Yang style movements are larger, with an emphasis on maintaining continuous, uninterrupted motion. It is often recommended for beginners due to its more approachable and less intense nature.

Krav Maga was developed by Imi Lichtenfeld in Israel in the mid-20th century, Krav Maga is a modern, practical martial art designed for self-defence.
• Characteristics: It focuses on real-world situations and emphasises neutralising threats as quickly as possible using strikes to vital areas, such as the eyes, throat, and groin. Krav Maga is known for its simplicity, effectiveness, and adaptability in high-stress situations.

Wing Chun is a Chinese martial art that traces its origins back to the 17th century and was famously taught by Ip Man to Bruce Lee.
• Characteristics: Wing Chun is a close-range fighting style that emphasises quick, direct strikes, efficient movements, and strong defence techniques. Its focus is on simultaneous attack and defense, using leverage rather than strength to subdue opponents. The style incorporates unique techniques such as centerline theory, where practitioners aim to control the centerline of the body in order to maintain optimal attacking and defending positions.

Reading Recommendations
The War of Art: Break Through the Blocks and Win Your Inner Creative Battles by Steven Pressfield – This book explores the internal struggles many face when trying to create and offers strategies to overcome them.

chapter three
​tai chi : bridging martial arts and Mindful calm

Duration | 3 minutes 25 seconds
Complete Segment Time Stamp | 08:17

SynopsisIn this chapter, Jamie Meyer and Dr. Symeon Rodger explore the paradoxical relationship between Tai Chi’s martial roots and its modern reputation as a calming, meditative practice. Dr. Rodger explains how Tai Chi’s emphasis on internal movement, energy circulation, and abdominal breathing creates a synergy that not only detoxifies and repairs the body but also stabilises emotions and quiets the mind.

Dialogue SummaryJamie Meyer:
You describe the true essence of Tai Chi as more of a martial art. When I think of martial arts, I picture self-defense or physical combat. How does something that sounds inherently aggressive help people find calm and presence in their everyday lives?

Dr. Symeon Rodger:
It’s because of the internal movement and energy dynamics I mentioned earlier.
Tai Chi incorporates a principle known as “when one part moves, all parts move.” There are no isolated body movements. For example, if I want to pick up this cup of water, I wouldn’t simply use an arm and shoulder motion. Instead, I could engage my entire body in a subtle, unified way. To an untrained observer, this might go unnoticed, but it makes a significant difference internally.

This constant, integrated movement helps circulate energy, oxygen, blood, lymph fluid, and even synovial fluid in the joints. It opens and closes the joints, detoxifies the body, and supports physical repair. These effects contribute to overall vitality without requiring visible exertion.

The same applies to Tai Chi’s breathing patterns, particularly abdominal breathing. Abdominal breathing is far more efficient than chest breathing, which most people default to. Chest breathing is physically taxing—it uses more energy to take in a breath than the breath provides. It also perpetuates what we call the “monkey mind,” keeping you emotionally unstable and mentally scattered.

By contrast, abdominal breathing detoxifies the internal organs, reduces the heart’s workload, and circulates bodily fluids more effectively. It also enables you to take in more energy than you expend, creating a sense of calm and centredness.

Jamie Meyer:
It’s funny—before I took singing lessons, I’d never even heard of abdominal breathing.

Credits Roll

Reading Recommendations
The Art of Happiness by Dalai Lama and Howard Cutler – Explores how creating inner peace and joy shapes a productive life.

chapter four
beyond the mind : exploring our three centers of intelligence 

​Duration | 4 minutes 57 seconds
Complete Segment Time Stamp | 11:08

Synopsis
Dr. Symeon Rodger explores the limitations of Western reliance on the rational mind to solve problems, contrasting it with Eastern traditions that treat the body and mind as a unified system. He introduces “the stage of the observer,” a state of awareness where individuals recognize they are more than their thoughts or emotions. The chapter concludes by examining the interconnected roles of the brain, heart, and gut—our three centres of intelligence—in shaping a holistic view of consciousness.

Dialogue Summary
Dr. Symeon Rodger: 
In the West, we tend to approach problems by trying to fix the brain using the brain itself. We’re taught to think our way out of problems, as if the rational mind is the ultimate problem solver.
However, with our culture’s radical overstimulation and cerebral orientation, the rational mind often goes into overdrive, becoming easily emotionalised. Attempting to fix it by thinking more only exacerbates the issue.

In contrast, many Eastern traditions emphasise working through the body to influence the mind. They recognise the body-mind as a unified organism. For instance, Taoism excels in using the body to affect the mind. Other traditions—like Buddhism, Hinduism, and ancient Christianity—often approach this the other way around, using the mind to influence the body. Both methods can be effective, but the body is often neglected in our modern understanding of self.

Western culture teaches us that we are our brains, thoughts, and emotions—that these define who we are. But this perspective is flawed. You have a brain, thoughts, and emotions, but they are not you. People who practice meditation, even at a beginner level, often reach what I call “the stage of the observer.”

In this stage, you realise you can watch your brain work—thoughts form, come, and go. You can observe your emotions as they ebb and flow. This awareness helps you understand that you are not these things. You are more than your thoughts, emotions, and even your brain.
Once you know this, you can begin to influence these aspects of yourself. But if you believe the cultural narrative that you are just your brain, you’ll accept another unspoken assumption: that your body is merely a transportation system for your brain.

Ancient traditions—and some modern science, such as the work of Dr. Joe Dispenza—show us that consciousness is distributed throughout the entire body-mind system. This can be experienced directly in practices like meditation. By focusing on different energy centers in the body, you’ll notice that each center provides a unique experience.

This ties into the idea that we have three centres of intelligence:
1. The Brain: The rational and cognitive hub.
2. The Heart: Which has a much stronger energy field than the brain and is the seat of emotional intelligence.
3. The Gut: Our intuitive and instinctive centre.

All three centres are interconnected and have their own neural networks and “intelligence.” We are only beginning to understand and embrace this holistic view of human consciousness.

Credits Roll

References
Buddhism was founded by Siddhartha Gautama, known as the Buddha, in the 5th to 4th century BCE in India.
• Core Beliefs: Buddhism teaches that life is suffering (dukkha) and that suffering arises from desire and attachment. The goal is to achieve enlightenment (nirvana) through the practice of the Noble Eightfold Path, which includes right understanding, right action, right meditation, and right mindfulness.
• Meditation in Buddhism: Meditation is a central practice in Buddhism, used to cultivate mindfulness, concentration, and insight. Various forms of meditation, such as Vipassana (insight meditation) and Zazen (seated meditation), are practiced to help individuals transcend suffering and attain spiritual liberation.

Taoism is one of China’s oldest philosophical and spiritual traditions, was founded by Laozi in the 6th century BCE, though its principles evolved over centuries.
• Core Beliefs: Taoism emphasizes living in harmony with the Tao, which is the fundamental principle of the universe, the source of all life and change. It stresses simplicity, spontaneity, and non-action (wu wei), which means aligning with the natural flow of the world rather than forcing or controlling outcomes.
• Meditation in Taoism: Taoist meditation is focused on achieving inner peace, balance, and harmony with the Tao. Practices include sitting meditation, breath control, visualization, and the cultivation of internal energy or qi.

Hinduism is one of the oldest religions in the world, with roots tracing back over 4,000 years in the Indian subcontinent. It is a complex, diverse religion with no single founder.
• Core Beliefs: Hinduism encompasses a variety of philosophies, rituals, and deities, with key concepts including dharma (righteousness), karma (the law of cause and effect), samsara (reincarnation), and moksha (liberation from the cycle of rebirth).
• Meditation in Hinduism: Meditation is used to focus the mind and spirit, aiming for self-realization and union with the divine. Practices like yoga (the path to union) and dhyana (meditative concentration) are central, with various forms, including mantra meditation, breath control (pranayama), and the contemplation of sacred texts.

Ancient Christianity refers to the early forms of Christian thought and practice in the first few centuries CE, based on the teachings of Jesus Christ and the apostles.
• Core Beliefs: Early Christianity emphasised faith in Jesus Christ as the Son of God and the Savior of humanity, who came to redeem people from sin through his death and resurrection. The central tenets included love, grace, salvation, and the kingdom of God.
• Meditation in Ancient Christianity: In ancient Christianity, meditation often revolved around prayer, contemplation, and reading scripture. Early Christian mystics practiced hesychasm, a form of contemplative prayer focused on stillness and experiencing God’s presence. Meditation was aimed at connecting with God and achieving spiritual transformation.

Meditation is a practice that involves focusing the mind to achieve a mentally clear and emotionally calm state. It is commonly used to cultivate mindfulness, awareness, and concentration, and is found in many spiritual and philosophical traditions.
Types of Meditation: Various forms of meditation exist, including:
• Mindfulness Meditation: Involves paying attention to thoughts, feelings, and sensations in the present moment without judgment.
• Transcendental Meditation: Uses a specific mantra to help transcend ordinary thought and reach a state of restful alertness.
• Loving-Kindness Meditation: Focuses on cultivating compassion and loving-kindness toward oneself and others.
• Zen Meditation (Zazen): Involves seated meditation with an emphasis on observing the breath and letting go of thoughts.
• Benefits: Regular meditation can reduce stress, enhance focus, improve emotional regulation, and promote overall well-being.

Emotions are complex psychological and physiological states that arise in response to stimuli and influence behaviour, cognition, and well-being. Emotions can be classified into primary (e.g., happiness, sadness, fear) and secondary (e.g., guilt, shame, pride) emotions.
• Role of Emotions in Meditation: Meditation practices often help individuals become more aware of their emotions, observe them without attachment, and regulate them more effectively. Mindfulness meditation, for example, encourages the observation of emotions as they arise, helping practitioners detach from reactive patterns and cultivate a balanced emotional state.
• Emotional Regulation: Practices from various spiritual traditions, such as Buddhist mindfulness or Taoist meditation, aim to transform negative emotions into constructive ones, allowing individuals to achieve greater emotional stability and peace.

Dr. Joe Dispenza – drjoedispenza.com
Dr. Dispenza’s work focuses on how the mind can affect the body, emphasizing that by changing thought patterns, we can rewire the brain and promote overall health and personal development.

Reading Recommendations
The Power of Now by Eckhart Tolle – Focuses on being present in the moment and using conscious awareness to create a life of fulfillment.

chapter five
escaping 'mcmindfulness' : the trap of external relief 

Duration | 3 minutes 47 seconds
Complete Segment Time Stamp | 15:32

SynopsisIn this chapter, Jamie Meyer and Dr. Symeon Rodger discuss the limitations of using stress relief as the sole purpose of personal development tools. Dr. Rodger explores how many ancient practices—such as Tai Chi, Qigong, and meditation—were originally designed for deeper transformation rather than mere stress alleviation. He critiques the modern trend of “McMindfulness,” a term coined by Miles Neale, describing it as the commodification of mindfulness meditation into a superficial practice akin to “mental fast food.” Jamie draws parallels between this phenomenon and broader cultural tendencies to oversimplify complex tools. Together, they reflect on how a narrow focus on external relief can hinder meaningful growth and engagement with the full potential of these traditions.

Dialogue SummaryJamie Meyer: 
And so what you're describing is being as in wholeness. And so it is considering all levels of self rather than being reaction that we have or us being the reaction that we have to external in the stimuli.
What you’re describing is being as in wholeness—considering all levels of self rather than simply reacting to external stimuli.

Dr. Symeon Rodger:
Yes, that’s a great way to put it. If we examine what these external stimuli do to us, it’s predominantly stress. We’re living in one of the most stressed-out cultures in history.
And how do we usually respond? By seeking immediate relief. We look for tools that can help us alleviate stress—whether physical, psychological, or a combination of the two. But we tend to view these tools through a very narrow lens: How will this help me relieve stress?
For example, someone might say, I’ll practice Tai Chi to feel less stressed, or I’ll meditate to calm down. While tools like Tai Chi, Qigong, or meditation can indeed alleviate stress, that wasn’t their original purpose. Stress relief is merely a byproduct, a side effect. A valuable one, yes, but not the main goal.

This narrow focus creates a problem. If you approach these tools solely for stress relief, you fail to go deeper. You miss the full transformative potential these practices offer, leaving them as mere “band-aid” solutions rather than addressing the root of the issue.
This is where the concept of McMindfulness comes in. Mindfulness meditation, for instance, was once a fringe practice. Now, it’s everywhere. Doctors recommend it, workplaces offer it—it’s become a mainstream solution.

But as one author, Miles Neale, puts it, mindfulness has been commoditised. It’s been dumbed down into what he calls McMindfulness—the fast food of personal development.

Jamie Meyer: 
Like mental fast food, right?

Dr. Symeon Rodger: 
Exactly. It’s the fast food of personal development. And many tools end up like this. They get stripped of their depth and complexity because our culture focuses so much on stress relief.
Part of the issue is also that our cultural worldview doesn’t always accommodate what these tools are trying to teach us. Without the broader understanding or context, we lose much of their potential.

Credits Roll

References
McMindfulness coined by Miles Neale in Gradual Awakening: The Tibetan Buddhist Path of Becoming Fully Human(Published: 18 September 2018).
Gradual Awakening on Amazon

Reading Recommendations
The Healing Power of the Breath by Richard Brown and Patricia Gerbarg – Highlights how breathwork can improve health and promote body-mind integration, complementing practices like Qigong.

chapter six
rituals in practice : embodiment as Transformation

Duration | 2 minutes 52 seconds
Complete Segment Time Stamp | 18:45
SynopsisIn this chapter, Dr. Symeon Rodger and Jamie Meyer explore the concept of transforming spiritual practices from rituals into embodied experiences. Dr. Rodger critiques the reliance on brief, scheduled meditation sessions to achieve balance, suggesting that real transformation occurs when individuals embody the principles and mindfulness of their practices throughout the day. They discuss how Eastern traditions, like Tibetan Buddhism, emphasise the importance of integrating meditation into daily life beyond the cushion, helping maintain focus and a state of mindfulness even when not actively meditating. The chapter underscores the necessity of living with intention and awareness continuously, rather than relying solely on short, isolated rituals.
Dialogue SummaryJamie Meyer: 
We become attached to the idea of having to meditate, right? So, if we don’t meditate, we feel off-kilter for the entire day because we haven’t set aside those 20 minutes. The difference between fast food and the depth of personal development you’re describing is that you don’t need to rely on small daily rituals to find that peace and balance. You can actually embody the benefits of those practices 24 hours a day.

Dr. Symeon Rodger: 
To a great extent, that’s really the core of it. You could say a little more about it in the sense that if you’re only relying on the 20-minute ritual—let’s even make it 30 minutes—you meditate for half an hour, feel great, but then you get up, and your brain starts going in every direction. You spend the next 15.5 hours of your day in your old default setting, not in the peaceful meditation setting. What you’re really doing is reverting to your past harmful practices for 15.5 hours a day. How is 30 minutes of meditation supposed to counterbalance 15.5 hours of old behaviour? Clearly, it doesn’t.

And that’s why, if you look into some of these traditions—such as Tibetan Buddhism—they’ll talk about not only the meditation session itself but also what comes after. In these traditions, you’re always trying to keep your mind focused on a particular object or concept. It could be an energy center in the body, a specific relationship to reality, or something else. The key is to carry forward what you’ve done in meditation, even though it might not be exactly the same. The idea is that you can approximate that meditative focus throughout your day.

Credits Roll

References
Tibetan Buddhism is a rich tradition of meditation and mindfulness practice. It emphasizes integrating meditation into everyday life, with a focus on maintaining mindfulness even outside of formal meditation sessions. This holistic approach is reflected in the post-meditation practice, where practitioners aim to carry the calm and clarity developed in meditation into their daily activities.
Source for further reading: “The Tibetan Book of Living and Dying” by Sogyal Rinpoche
This book is a comprehensive guide to the principles of Tibetan Buddhism, offering insights into its meditation practices and how they are applied in daily life.

Reading Recommendations
The Body Keeps the Score by Bessel van der Kolk – Explores the relationship between the body and mind in trauma recovery, showing the importance of somatic practices like Tai Chi and Qigong.

chapter seven
beyond progress : the personal depth that society needs

Duration | 5 minutes 46 seconds
Complete Segment Time Stamp | 21:04
SynopsisIn this chapter, Jamie Meyer and Dr. Symeon Rodger explore the depth of personal development in Western society compared to the Eastern traditions, focusing on the limitations of mainstream self-help tools. Dr. Rodger discusses the superficial application of techniques like yoga and Tai Chi, and how a lack of depth in learning these practices can lead to a superficial understanding. They delve into the difficulty of accessing truly transformative knowledge and expertise, especially when the majority of available resources offer only surface-level insights. The conversation highlights the importance of seeking deeper, authentic experiences for personal growth.
Dialogue SummaryJamie Meyer: 
In your opinion, with the prevalence of “fast food” personal development alongside deeper, more profound approaches, especially when comparing Western methods with their Eastern equivalents, do you think the West has truly progressed in personal development, or are we simply “putting lipstick on a pig,” still far from achieving meaningful growth?

Dr. Symeon Rodger: 
It’s a difficult question, and I’m not sure there’s one particular answer. Personal development has definitely penetrated Western society to a certain extent; much of it has gone mainstream. For example, techniques like Emotional Freedom Technique (EFT) or Thought Field Therapy (TFT), which allow people to feel emotionally better within a minute, are now widely recognized and even recommended by doctors. This is progress. People are much more aware of these tools, but I think only a small percentage of the population truly understands what’s available and how powerful these techniques can be.

There’s also the issue of accessibility. For example, when you think of something as profound as yoga, most people associate it with basic exercises in a gym or yoga studio—sun salutations, downward dogs, and some meditation or breathing exercises. While these practices are useful and valuable, they don’t present the opportunity to go deeper. Most people never explore this deeper dimension, and thus, their understanding remains superficial.

I can speak from experience—after 40 years of practicing Tai Chi, I’ve only had the fortune of training with a true Tai Chi master a few times, and that was with the same individual whose expertise was far beyond the average teacher. Accessing that level of depth is rare. To truly understand these practices, one must be willing to dig deeper, to question: What are the principles behind this? How is it supposed to work?

A friend of mine, who shares my perspective on Tai Chi and has a lot of experience in Qigong, once said, “You’re one of the few people I can have this conversation with because most Tai Chi experts I know just focus on the forms—how to perform them. When I ask them to go deeper and explore the real essence, I get a blank look. This highlights a serious issue: If the teachers themselves don’t possess a deeper knowledge, it becomes difficult to go beyond the surface level of the practice.

Jamie Meyer: 
That’s a really interesting rabbit hole you’ve gone down, because it seems like there’s this epidemic where everyone believes they’re an expert. They think they’re receiving the depth of experience and exposure you’re describing, and that they have access to the quality of information you’re hinting at. But in reality, that level of insight is actually quite rare.

Credits Roll

References
Emotional Freedom Technique (EFT) is a form of psychological acupressure that uses fingertip tapping on specific meridian points to reduce emotional distress. For more information, you can refer to the book “The Tapping Solution” by Nick Ortner.

Thought Field Therapy (TFT) is another energy psychology technique that uses tapping on specific points on the body to treat psychological distress. More about TFT can be found in “The Thought Field Therapy Manual” by Roger Callahan.

Yoga and its Depth: the deeper aspects of yoga, particularly the ones explored in traditional practices, are often not accessed in Western studios. For a deeper understanding, books like “The Yoga Sutras of Patanjali” by Swami Sivananda or “The Heart of Yoga” by T.K.V. Desikachar are highly recommended.

Reading Recommendations
The Untethered Soul by Michael A. Singer – Explores personal growth, spiritual awareness, and removing the complexity in life’s challenges.

chapter eight
quality over quantity : discerning MEANINGFUL INFORMATION 

Duration | 3minutes 04seconds
Complete Segment Time Stamp | 26:17
SynopsisThis chapter explores how individuals can navigate the overwhelming abundance of information available today, distinguishing between superficial, half-baked knowledge and truly meaningful, well-rounded understanding. Dr. Symeon Rodger highlights the importance of personal inquiry, continual learning, and the value of seeking diverse perspectives, emphasising that everyone starts somewhere and that true mastery comes through ongoing practice and openness to other viewpoints. Jamie Meyer adds to the conversation by discussing how people often struggle to invest more time into deepening their knowledge, especially when they are already stretched thin by daily life commitments.
Dialogue SummaryJamie Meyer: 
How do people distinguish between, you know, the superficial, the half-baked, and the master’s level of the information they’re seeking?

Dr. Symeon Rodger: 
Well, that’s a good question. I’m not sure there’s a simple answer to that, to tell you the truth.
Jamie, I think starting with whatever’s available isn’t usually a bad thing. We all start with superficial knowledge, right? It’s just part of the process. You begin with the basics and gradually go deeper.

As one Tai Chi Master I know said, ‘You always do it wrong before you do it right.’ You have to be okay with doing it wrong. Everyone who’s new at something does it wrong, and that’s perfectly fine.
In the end, for the average person, it really comes down to personal inquiry—being willing to read, investigate, and talk to as many people as possible. In the ancient Christian mystical tradition, there’s a saying, one that probably echoes in many other traditions, which is: ‘Never be the student of just one master.’ Even if you believe your master is the best, get other perspectives because, ultimately, you don’t know what you don’t know.

Jamie Meyer: 
Absolutely. I couldn’t agree more. You create depth just by having different perspectives, even if you don’t reach mastery. You still deepen your understanding of something by seeing it from others’ viewpoints.

But here’s the thing: this idea of asking more questions, investigating more, becoming curious—it doesn’t really fit into the everyday life of most people. If someone is managing to fit in 20 or 30 minutes of yoga or meditation, they’re often already stretched for time. Anything beyond that, like further investigation, just doesn’t seem feasible for them.

Credits Roll

References
The Ancient Christian Mystical Tradition emphasises a deeper, experiential connection with God through practices such as contemplative prayer and meditation. One of the core principles is the idea of transcending dogma and directly experiencing the divine.
Source: The Cloud of Unknowing (anonymous, 14th century text) is a foundational text in Christian mysticism.

Reading Recommendations
The Power of Simplicity: A Management Guide to Cutting Through Complexity by Jack Trout – Focuses on simplifying personal and professional challenges to make effective progress.

chapter nine
the quest for depth : cultivating curiosity 

Duration | 4 minutes 34seconds
Complete Segment Time Stamp | 28:47
SynopsisIn this chapter, Jamie Meyer and Dr. Symeon Rodger discuss the importance of cultivating curiosity and going beyond surface-level practices in personal development. Dr. Rodger explores how individuals can integrate deeper practices like Tai Chi and Qigong into their everyday routines, even with limited time. The discussion highlights how the principles behind these practices can be woven into daily life without the need for long periods of dedicated time. Dr. Rodger also explains how small adjustments in posture and awareness can have profound impacts, emphasising the potential for transformation through curiosity and mindful inquiry.
Dialogue SummaryJamie Meyer: 
People are not naturally inclined to be as curious, and they’re also not as naturally inclined to set aside time just to be curious about something. You know, like the fact that they go to a yoga studio and they have a yoga class, that’s enough of a tool or a resource for them as it stands and as it is. And so how do you get people to go from being able to make just 20 minutes for a yoga or 30 minutes for meditation to that deeper level of inquiry that you’re talking about?

Dr. Symeon Rodger: 
Yeah, and that’s really… you’re hitting on really the key to all of this because it really is time, and especially in the modern world. I mean, you look at, I don’t know, you look at the monks in China. Well, okay, if you’re living at the Shin temple and you’re a monk, you can train in Chung and martial arts for six hours a day or eight hours a day, because you have nothing else to do. Good.

99% of the planet is not like that. So you really have to look for… okay, if this is a profound approach, whatever the approach is, if it’s meant to be kind of a blueprint for living life, if it’s meant to have a profound and deep effect, then obviously that has to go beyond the 20 or 30 minutes I can dedicate to it, right? And so how do I take the fundamental principles that are here and incorporate them into my everyday life so that I don’t have to invest more time?

And that’s the whole thing. So the whole purpose of the way I’ve been teaching Tai Chi and Qigong has been to get people to understand these principles and incorporate them into their everyday life, their everyday movement, their everyday approach to everything, because you have unlimited time to practice. It’s just you need to be able to do this in such a way that you’re leveraging those other 15 hours and 30 minutes that you’ve got instead of just letting them go down the drain or reverting to your default setting.

Now, that’s easier said than done, obviously, and it’s a constant—it can be a constant challenge, but it is doable. At least to a considerable extent. I mean, think about it… you know, a lot of Qigong and Tai Chi has to do with, say, just to take one element, is how you adjust your posture. Well, the ideal posture that, you know, Chinese medicine talks about, that makes everything in the body flow properly, is not what we think of as ideal posture in the West. We think ideal posture in the West is to stand at attention, which is a very rigid, upright posture in which, actually, you cannot breathe. You just simply can’t.

And yet, what you can do is you could be standing at a bus stop, right? And you can play with your postural adjustments, or a certain number of postural adjustments you make from, say, top of the body to the bottom, to make sure you—or just throw yourself into a better postural alignment. You can do that at the bus stop. You don’t need to just, you know, stand there and play iTunes. You can actually do something useful.

So there’s endless possibility for this. I mean, you can do it just, you know, sitting at your desk. You don’t have to, uh, you know, sit at your keyboard and become super stressed out because you’re just holding yourself in a particular alignment. You can learn to kind of rotate the alignment as you’re doing your work. You can keep your body lubricated, you can keep things moving. You don’t have to be absolutely rigid. So it’s just learning little things like this.

Credits Roll

References
Posture in Chinese Medicine: posture is believed to influence the flow of Qi (vital energy) throughout the body. Proper posture helps maintain balance and harmony, promoting physical well-being.
Source: The Healing Power of Qi: Qi Gong, Acupressure, and the Five Elements by Robert Doane.

chapter ten
ideologies & complexities : navigating the unseen layers

Duration | 3 minutes 39 seconds
Complete Segment Time Stamp | 32:47
SynopsisIn this chapter, Jamie Meyer and Dr. Symeon Rodger discuss the complex nature of development, ideologies, and the human tendency to seek simplicity in a world full of ambiguity. Dr. Rodger explains his perspective on development as a holistic, embodied process, distinct from isolating or compartmentalised approaches. He emphasises the dangers of ideologies—be they religious, political, or otherwise—which offer false comfort by providing simple answers to complex realities. The conversation touches on how different cultures, particularly in the East, view the rigidity of ideologies and narrow perspectives, recognising that life is inherently complex and requires embracing ambiguity.
Dialogue SummaryJamie Meyer: 
And so your biggest differentiation between, is less between Western and personal development and ancient methods of development and Eastern methods of development. And it focuses more on the difference between isolating development and embodying development. I would say that’s true.

Dr. Symeon Rodger: 
Yeah, because I don’t in my own mind make any harsh differentiation between what is Eastern or not Eastern. In fact, I don’t really even know where East ends and West is. You know, it’s very hard to say. I had someone recently ask me—one of my own clients—so with the ancient Christian mystical tradition, which we often refer to as Eastern Christianity, or a version thereof, um, is that really Eastern or is that Western? Well, I don’t know.

It depends on what you’re talking about. These are just labels, you know? We can argue geography, we can argue all kinds of things, but in the end, it doesn’t really matter. And that’s, of course, one of our obsessions in the West—we love labels, so we can put things in little boxes that we understand. We’re very uncomfortable with ambiguity.
But any inquiry into reality brings you right into the very base of ambiguity. It’s right in front of you. You begin to realise you know a lot less than you think you do, and you don’t have all the answers. Maybe even as a species, I’m not sure we have all the answers. But you have to be okay with not knowing.

If you’re looking for something to make yourself just mentally and emotionally comfortable because, you know, “I have all the answers,” well, that’s an ideology, okay? It could be a religious ideology, it could be a political ideology, but it’s an ideology—an artificial schema of how the world is, how the universe is, which doesn’t bear any resemblance to reality. It bears a superficial resemblance, maybe, but you subscribe to this because it makes you feel good, it makes you feel superior to other people, but in the end, it doesn’t give you anything. It’s a prison. And then, of course, people use an ideology for what purpose? Well, to hit other people over the head with it. It becomes a weapon.

But clinging to an ideological perspective, interestingly enough, in more mentally advanced cultures, is looked down upon. They often say in traditional Japanese culture that to be obsessed with a particular idea or have a very narrow point of view is looked upon as being immature because life is complex.

Jamie Meyer: 
We don’t do complex well, do we? We like complicated, but we don’t do complex very well.

Dr. Symeon Rodger: 
That is a beautiful distinction.

Credits Roll

References
Personal Development involves activities that improve self-awareness, skills, potential, and overall effectiveness.

Ideology  refers to a system of ideas, beliefs, and values that influence individual or collective behaviour and societal structures.

Reading Recommendations
Daring Greatly by Brené Brown – Explores how vulnerability and authenticity lead to personal growth and deeper connections.

chapter eleven
certainty vs. mystery : embracing the unknown​

Duration | 8 minutes 47 seconds
Complete Segment Time Stamp | 35:53
SynopsisIn this chapter, Jamie Meyer and Dr. Symeon Rodger explore the tension between certainty and mystery in life. Dr. Rodger contrasts modern ideologies that seek certainty with ancient traditions that challenge comfort to encourage growth. They discuss how fear, driven by outdated worldviews, persists despite advancements that have made life safer. The chapter encourages embracing uncertainty as a path to personal development and challenges listeners to reconsider their relationship with fear and the unknown.
Dialogue SummaryJamie Meyer: 
The rigid idea of ideology is what creates friction with something new, change, or the grey area between black and white.

Dr. Symeon Rodger: 
Oh, the grey is uncomfortable, right? It really is. If you think about it in terms of religion and spiritual traditions, modern religions seek to provide certainty—“This is the way things are. If you do this, you’ll be okay.” But if you look at the ancient mystical traditions that many of these religions came from, they want to deliberately knock that certainty out from under you. They want to put you into discomfort because it’s the only way you grow.

And for the purpose of this conversation, the grey area is only uncomfortable because we believe it to be uncomfortable—it’s different from our normal. Once you learn to live in the grey, it no longer feels uncomfortable to navigate fluidity, because then you’re embodying the levels of development we’re talking about. Once you do that, the grey area becomes easier to move through.

I think you’re also touching on fear here. Our culture is very fear-based. Not just because fear is everywhere in the media, but because, at a deeper level, we’re profoundly fearful. This goes back to the worldview we have, which is influenced by the Newtonian perspective. This worldview sees the universe as external to us, mechanical, and hostile—a dangerous place. We expect bad things to happen, and live under a constant low-level anxiety. We believe that the only tool we have to protect ourselves is our rational mind. So we think we need to prepare, build defenses—basically, create a castle with battlements. We’re obsessed with safety and security, not realising that this mentality actually brings about the very experience we fear.

Jamie Meyer: 
Do you think that, as society has become more progressive and advanced, there’s far less threat to our lives now? In most parts of the world, there is less risk to our actual survival. We don’t get as sick, we don’t die as young, and we can avoid deadly accidents. We have machines doing jobs humans used to do. Do you think we’ve shifted the idea of fear from physical, life-threatening situations—more prevalent in the past—to a fear related to existence and reality?

Dr. Symeon Rodger: 
It’s an interesting point. Yes, life is safer now than it’s ever been. And yet, we’re more fearful. One thing that addresses this is Stephen Pinker’s book Enlightenment Now: The Case for Reason, Science, Humanism, and Progress. While I don’t agree with all of his assumptions, he pulls together a huge amount of data to show that the world has become—and continues to become—a better place. Over the last century and a half, measurable factors like health, life expectancy, crime rates, and the likelihood of dying young have all improved. So, the world is safer, more humane, and more advanced.

But that brings us back to your question: why are we so fearful in a world that is getting better? Good question. Of course, many people are telling us the opposite—that the world is going downhill. There are political and religious ideologies that thrive on this, even though the actual data contradicts them. But the fear persists because of cognitive biases like recency bias. If you’ve just heard about a violent crime, you’ll likely believe the crime rate is on the rise, even though the statistics show crime has actually fallen. We’re often tricked by our perception of recent events, even though the broader trend shows the opposite.

Jamie Meyer: 
So, when you say we’re living 120 years behind, are you saying we’re living out our everyday lives as if it were 120 years ago based on scientific understanding? Or is it that science itself is 120 years behind, in terms of data and progress?

Dr. Symeon Rodger: 
Well, of course, the scientific community is not monolithic. There are different interpretations of data, but the data itself is clear. Experiments, particularly in areas like subatomic physics, have proven things that are no longer debated. People may dispute the implications, but the data is irrefutable. And that data shows that if we live our lives assuming that what our senses tell us is absolutely real, we’re completely mistaken. The world, including the objects we see, is mostly empty space—99.99999% of matter is empty space. What we think of as “solid” is just energy packets whose location and movement can’t be precisely determined. They appear and disappear at an incredible rate.

Credits Roll

References
Newtonian Worldview: A philosophical doctrine based on Isaac Newton’s work, which presents the universe as mechanical, external, and deterministic. This worldview continues to influence society despite being challenged by modern science.
Newtonianism - Wikipedia

Recency Bias: A cognitive bias where people give greater importance to the most recent events. This can lead to an exaggerated perception of current trends or dangers, such as the idea that crime is more prevalent just because a recent violent crime was reported.
Recency Bias - Wikipedia

Subatomic Physics: The study of particles smaller than atoms, which reveals that the material world is not as solid as it appears. These discoveries challenge our understanding of reality and the nature of matter.
Subatomic Particle - Wikipedia

Stephen Pinker’s “Enlightenment Now”: This book argues that the world is improving, providing data to show how life expectancy, crime rates, and overall well-being have improved over the last century and a half.
Enlightenment Now - Google Search

chapter twelve
breaking the mold : how newtonian thinking still shapes us

Duration | 3 minutes 28 seconds
Complete Segment Time Stamp |44:06
SynopsisIn this chapter, Dr. Symeon Rodger explores how our perception of reality has been shaped by a rigid, materialistic worldview rooted in Newtonian physics. He discusses how cultures steeped in spiritual traditions, which view reality as more fluid and interconnected, challenge this perspective. Dr. Rodger contrasts this with the Tibetan worldview, where death is seen not as an end, but as part of an ongoing cycle of existence. Through this lens, fear of death is replaced by a sense of continuity. Jamie Meyer references Robert Lanza’s Biocentrism, which offers an easier-to-understand explanation of the physics that supports these alternative views of reality, emphasising the interconnectedness of life and consciousness in understanding the universe.

Dialogue SummaryDr. Symeon Rodger: 
Every culture tells people how to perceive reality. And this is something we don’t often realize, but our culture tells us to perceive reality in a very rigid, materialistic way. That’s why people with spiritual ideas have been told for centuries, “You’re just fantasizing. This is all unreal. You’re making it up.” Yet, the people who go deep into those ideas will say, “Actually, no, we have data. You just don’t like our data. You prefer yours.” That’s another story altogether. The fact is, we tend to live in a very materialistic perception of reality, which is, frankly, foolish.

And yet, other cultures that have not been so heavily influenced by the Newtonian worldview have very different ideas about reality. You can be with someone, inhabiting the same physical space, talking to them, and yet realize that they don’t interpret the space in the same way you do at all. To them, all of physical reality is very provisional—it’s there, but it’s really not. There’s an entire existence beyond that. It’s like the relationship between life and death.

We’re terrified of death, but cultures like Tibetan culture, which has been exposed to over 1,300 years of Buddhism, have a very different view. For them, death isn’t the end—it’s just a part of the cycle. One Tibetan sage, for example, said to a disciple, “You know that big encyclopedia I’ve been working on? I don’t think I’ll finish it. I think death is closer than I originally thought. So when I die, come and find my reincarnation. When I get to be about ten years old, remind me where I left off and light a fire under me to get going again.”

Jamie Meyer: 
Right, leave a bookmark in the book.

Dr. Symeon Rodger: 
Exactly. It’s this whole idea that everything is continuous, and there’s nothing to fear. We’ve been here before, we’ve left here before, and we’ll do it again. It’s okay. For those who aren’t deeply into subatomic physics, Robert Lanza actually wrote a book called Biocentrism, which offers an easier way of understanding the physics I’m describing here.

Credits Roll

ReferencesRobert Lanza, M.D. – Biocentrism: How Life and Consciousness are the Keys to Understanding the True Nature of the Universe
Originally Published: May 18, 2010
Google Search for Robert Lanza Biocentrism

Reading RecommendationsRadical Acceptance by Tara Brach – Discusses how accepting yourself as you are, without judgment, is essential for self-growth and realising your true potential.

chapter THIRTEEN
the purpose of progress : evaluating true advancement

Duration | 8 minutes 44 seconds
Complete Segment Time Stamp | 47:00
SynopsisIn this chapter, Jamie Meyer and Dr. Symeon Rodger discuss the concept of progress and why, despite living in an increasingly prosperous world, many people still experience discontent and inner conflict. Dr. Rodger suggests that even though we live in a safer, freer world, the dissonance people feel points to a deeper misalignment between our understanding of the universe and how we are living. He proposes that instead of viewing this internal friction as something negative, we should treat it as feedback that can guide us to realignment. Dr. Rodger introduces the idea of adopting a mindset where we expect good things to happen, regardless of external circumstances. This shift towards relentless optimism, while seemingly absurd, can profoundly reduce stress, improve health, and foster a sense of flow with life. Through this practice, individuals can break free from the distractions of a hyper-stimulated society, allowing for greater mental clarity and emotional openness. The chapter challenges conventional thinking about progress, suggesting that true advancement lies not in external achievements but in an internal shift towards a more open and positive perspective on life.

Dialogue SummaryJamie Meyer: 
If the world is a better place, why do we need any more development than we currently have? This whole conversation has been about moving from isolated development and superficial development to embodied development and broadening understanding and perspectives. If we’re already better, safer, stronger, and freer, why would we adopt any other form of development beyond what we already have?

Dr. Symeon Rodger: 
I could say probably at least two reasons I can think of. One reason is that we’re miserable. Okay, just back up a little bit. The world is better, safer, and freer than it’s ever been, albeit not perfect, and it’s facing its own challenges at the present time. Despite that, the fact is, we’re miserable in this better society. What does this tell us? It should probably tell us at least one thing. Going back to the idea of a theoretical manual for living human life, which doesn’t exist, if we had that manual and we were able to compare how we are living to how that manual says we should live, we would realize we’re off. The fact that we’re off is proven by the fact that we’re experiencing symptoms.

If we’re experiencing considerable friction in our lives—often emotional or internal friction—then something’s not quite right. What could it be? When we look deeper, we realize there’s a divergence between our understanding of the universe and how we relate to the universe around us. There’s a difference between our understanding of reality and how we’re living it on the one hand, versus how the universe actually is. If we were really in the flow—let’s go back to the flow concept—if we were truly in the flow, we wouldn’t experience this dissonance.

The fact that we’re experiencing dissonance is a symptom. Instead of labeling that dissonance as bad or evil and trying to get rid of it with, I don’t know, drugs or whatever, we can look at it as feedback. If that’s feedback, then how do we actually get into the flow of reality? How do we do this?

Because, you know, looking at something like Taoism, for example, the whole idea of the Tao, the Way—this whole notion of the Way—is that the Way is the essence of everything. The Way is how things are. The Way is known not by intellectual understanding but by getting into the flow of it. And that’s the message every ancient tradition will tell you. You can’t actually know absolute reality intellectually, but you can experience it.
And you can only do that by following certain paths that will hopefully get you into that flow. If you do, it will reduce that dissonance, and you’ll experience something completely new and different. The question is, how do we do that?

And I think a lot of it has to do with, if people want it, honestly, Jamie, in my opinion, if people wanted to experience a lot less dissonance, I do have a recommendation that seems ridiculously simple. It seems silly, and it seems completely absurd. And, you know, I don’t think anyone should believe what I’m about to tell them. They should simply try it out.

Jamie Meyer: 
So definitely try this at home.

Dr. Symeon Rodger: 
Yeah, so it’s really simple. The problem is, we often expect that bad things will happen, and we try to protect ourselves. What if we reversed that? What if we adopted the point of view that the universe is on our side and is going to deliver benefit?
What if we adopted that perspective wholesale? What if, every moment of every day, we expected good things? What if we became ridiculous, irrepressible, and uncontainable optimists? What if we just expected the best all the time? What if we became complete idiots? Because that’s how you’ll look to other people, by the way. What if you ignored all the evidence to the contrary?

I submit that if you try that, you will feel 3,000% better. And in a crazy, mysterious way, this will solve almost all of life’s problems. It will start solving your health problems—some of them, at least. You’ll be a lot less stressed and a lot less tense internally. Your metabolism will change. Your blood pressure will probably go down. It certainly won’t go up.
In addition to that, one of the really big problems—if you look at ancient systems of personal development—they will say the big problem is the “monkey mind.” The big problem is that your mental attention is scattered everywhere. It’s going in a thousand directions at once all day long. And of course, if they said that 2,000 years ago, that was nothing like what we have today. We’ve created a hyper-stimulated society.

We’ve created a society where we run on stimulation to such an extent that many people are totally uncomfortable without it. They can’t just sit and be.
Well, if you were to simply practice this open expectation—just be open and expect good things to happen—this has the effect of pinning your mental attention, holding it in one place. It solves that problem right away, and it opens you up. You no longer feel closed off because when you’re protecting yourself, you’re always closed off. Instead of being mentally and emotionally closed, you become open and available to what is.

You will stop labeling things as good or bad. Not necessarily in a moral sense, but we live by labels, and it becomes ridiculous. We feel the need to label everything good or bad, and we measure everything. Oh, we love to measure.

Credits Roll
References
Cognitive Dissonance: A psychological theory proposed by Leon Festinger, referring to the discomfort one feels when holding two conflicting beliefs or when actions contradict beliefs. This often leads individuals to change their beliefs or behaviours to reduce inconsistency.

chapter fourteen
self-fixing & reality : understanding the struggle 

Duration | 8 minutes 37 seconds
Complete Segment Time Stamp | 55:11
SynopsisDr. Symeon Rodger discusses how the belief that we are defective and need to fix ourselves is a major obstacle in personal development. He explains that focusing on our perceived flaws creates a cycle of negativity, while focusing on the person we want to become can transform our reality. Jamie Meyer adds that true transformation requires embodying the feelings behind affirmations, not just repeating them. Dr. Rodger emphasises that emotional states can be consciously chosen, offering a path to ease and alignment in personal growth. The chapter also references The Master Key System by Charles F. Haanel on manifesting desired realities.
Dialogue SummaryDr. Symeon Rodger: 
If you do this, you will overcome one of the biggest unseen hurdles in personal development—unseen, unrecognised, and unnoticed. It’s the idea that you are defective and need to fix yourself. The belief that you’re not enough, that you’re not good enough, that you’ve let yourself and others down, and that somehow, you’re a throwback or broken in some way. You think you need to work to fix yourself and struggle to fix yourself. Many people go into things like meditation, yoga, or other personal development practices thinking they’ll have to work really hard, be extremely disciplined, and constantly tell themselves, “I’m terrible at this. I’m doing it wrong.” They sit down to meditate, but their mind races everywhere, and they think, “I’m doing it wrong and I’m useless.”

The Dalai Lama says that if he can do it, you’re fine. Okay? We are incredibly hard on ourselves, unrealistically so. As one Tibetan lama put it: “Look, you can have this self-pity version of yourself that you run around with all day, but please don’t try to tell me it’s not just a made-up persona. It is. It’s the version you indulge. You could always indulge a different version, and whatever you focus on becomes your reality.” This is the fundamental core of all ancient systems: what you focus on becomes your reality. It becomes real. It becomes everything.

If you focus on how bad you are, you’ll continue to feel bad and miserable. “I’m bad and miserable. I have to work to fix myself so I won’t be bad and miserable,” but I’m still bad and miserable. It doesn’t make sense.

Jamie Meyer: 
With that said, I’d like to go back to the idea that thoughts aren’t the only way we create our reality. A lot of people might hear the phrase, “What I focus on becomes my reality,” and think that their thoughts need to be a particular way. Then, they over-rationalise and overthink about what their thoughts are doing—whether they’re positive or negative. There’s a big difference between constantly repeating a thought and actually embodying it. The difference is like isolation versus embodiment. The mind can only do so much with the thought, and the rest of your being needs to get on board.

Dr. Symeon Rodger: 
That’s true. The conscious mind can only focus on one thing at a time, although, in a sense, you can keep a general orientation in the back of your mind while going about your day. We’re capable of doing that. But, yeah, it sounds like you were talking about affirmations. Just repeating something—affirmations and similar practices can be very powerful. They can reprogram the subconscious. However, they require consistent effort. Without a general openness and positive expectation, you’re essentially fighting an uphill battle. You’re still crippled by the fear that things aren’t going to work out. You might say, “I’ll use this affirmation and drill it into myself,” but that approach often puts you in a much harder position than you really need to be in.

Jamie Meyer: 
So, how do you take, let’s say, an affirmation as an isolated thought, and then transform it into a full embodiment of being? How do you create that ease you’re talking about?

Dr. Symeon Rodger: 
That’s a great question. How do you take the content of an affirmation and embody it? Well, let’s look at affirmations since many people are using them. They can be effective when done properly and consistently. The issue is that most people dabble in them and don’t stick with it, then they claim, “It didn’t work for me.” But consistency is key, just like with anything else.
Take a health affirmation, for example. There’s a famous story from a book called The Master Key System by Charles F. Haanel, published 120 years ago in the United States. Originally, it was a correspondence course. In the book, Haanel tells the story of a client who was crippled as a child. The doctors told the parents that nothing could be done and that the child wouldn’t survive. This child came across an affirmation that helped reverse his condition. The affirmation was a combination of all the things he wanted to be—seven attributes that, together, would heal him. He focused on the person he wanted to become. He wrote in saying that he completely recovered, and now as an adult, his body was fine. He woke up every day repeating the affirmation. So, we know these practices work when done consistently.

But the essence isn’t in the words themselves—it’s in the feeling state behind the words. The key is to feel the affirmation. You have to be in that state—the state of your wish having already been fulfilled. And the funny thing is, we can choose our feeling states. People don’t think they can choose their emotions. They believe circumstances dictate their feelings. Something “bad” happens, and they feel down. Then a friend brings them a birthday cake, and suddenly they feel happy. But our emotions don’t have to be so erratic. We can choose our feelings and our moods. It just takes practice and detachment from the noise around us, especially in our busy, chaotic world.

Credits Roll

References
Book by Charles F. Haanel, The Master Key System
Originally Published: April 4, 1912
https://www.google.com/search?q=The+Master+Key+System&client=safari&sca_esv=8af1621642e5e6e9&rls=en&sxsrf=ADLYWILPWSz-OUeSvqngi-FS_k2hTp9LMQ%3A1731905238491&ei=1sY6Z9XGHaCv4-EPlZyfwQU&ved=0ahUKEwjViZnkieWJAxWg1zgGHRXOJ1gQ4dUDCBA&uact=5&oq=The+Master+Key+System&gs_lp=Egxnd3Mtd2l6LXNlcnAiFVRoZSBNYXN0ZXIgS2V5IFN5c3RlbTIKECMYgAQYJxiKBTIFEC4YgAQyChAAGIAEGEMYigUyChAAGIAEGEMYigUyChAAGIAEGEMYigUyChAAGIAEGEMYigUyChAAGIAEGEMYigUyBRAAGIAEMgUQABiABDIFEAAYgAQyFBAuGIAEGJcFGNwEGN4EGOAE2AEBSNESUKsFWIwIcAF4AZABAJgBnQKgAZAEqgEDMi0yuAEDyAEA-AEBmAIDoAKnBMICChAAGLADGNYEGEfCAg0QABiABBiwAxhDGIoFwgIOEAAYsAMY5AIY1gTYAQHCAhMQLhiABBiwAxhDGMgDGIoF2AEBwgIHECMYsAIYJ8ICBxAuGIAEGA3CAgcQABiABBgNwgIWEC4YgAQYDRiXBRjcBBjeBBjgBNgBAZgDAIgGAZAGE7oGBggBEAEYCZIHBTEuMC4yoAe_Fg&sclient=gws-wiz-serp

Reading Recommendations
The Four Agreements by Don Miguel Ruiz – Discusses how limiting beliefs hold people back, and how four simple agreements can break free of those limitations.

chapter fifteen
are we there yet? : the pursit of ease and truth

Duration | 5 minutes 30 seconds
Complete Segment Time Stamp | 01:03:14
SynopsisDr. Symeon Rodger discusses how conditioning and trauma shape our lives, often triggering involuntary reactions. He shares a personal story of overcoming childhood trauma through Emotional Freedom Technique (EFT). Although the trauma initially seemed resolved, it returned, teaching him that true healing requires patience and a deeper approach. Dr. Rodger concludes that working through challenges, rather than seeking a quick fix, often leads to lasting resolution and growth.
Dialogue SummaryDr. Symeon Rodger: 
We all run on a certain combination of conditioning, where we’ve been heavily conditioned. We were heavily conditioned by our parents, by the school system, by the media. We’ve been conditioned literally since the day we were born. And so we have conditioning on the one hand. We also have trauma, which is a different, more specific kind of conditioning, and pretty much everybody’s been traumatised in some way or another.

So we have all of these things, and when we’re traumatised, we have this pent-up energy that can be triggered at any time, and we can go down that rabbit hole involuntarily. We don’t control it. Can you get past this? You can, but the worst thing you can do is fixate on whether you’re getting past it. That’s absolutely the worst thing you can do.

Sometimes you can have some pretty bizarre experiences. For example, I had a really bad trauma when I was growing up because my father’s attitude toward life was that life is really dangerous. My aunt, his sister-in-law, later said, when she was in her 90s, “Yeah, your father just didn’t trust life.” And I said, “No, he didn’t.” He communicated that to me at an age when I had no defense because, until you’re eight or nine, you don’t have cognitive defenses. You absorb everything as truth, and your subconscious assumes it’s true. There’s nothing you can do about it at that stage.

So, long story short, I disproved this particular trauma. I have a friend in the world of EFT, the Emotional Freedom Technique, tapping. About ten years ago, she emailed me and said, “I have this new trauma protocol for EFT. Can I try it on you? I’m looking for people to experiment with. It’s free; just hop on the phone with me.”

So, I did. We were tapping away, and she was doing the linguistic parts of it, for which she was very gifted. At the time, I wasn’t emotionally connecting with the trauma, but I thought, “Okay, that’s fine. This probably won’t do anything, but I volunteered the time, so I’ll stay for the session.” We were on the phone for about an hour and a half, and the next day, the trauma was gone. I didn’t think about it for seven years. I assumed I had finally found what everyone wants: not just temporary relief but real resolution. It was gone.

I was so wrong. It came back with a vengeance. The same old approach didn’t work the second time. Over time, I realised that what had happened was that I had been given a space out of the trauma, but I didn’t understand the purpose. When it returned, I needed to do more than just try to get rid of it; I had to work through it. I needed a deeper, more patient approach.

But even then, it wasn’t easy for quite a while. We have to be aware that sometimes we’re given challenges we just need to work through. It’s not necessarily bad. There may be reasons we don’t fully understand. But eventually, we have to trust that there’s a greater wisdom behind it all, even though it’s uncomfortable. It won’t always be smooth sailing.

Credits Roll

References
Trauma: Physcolognical and/or Emotional injury or distress resulting from a deeply distressing or disturbing experience.

Reading Recommendations
Grit: The Power of Passion and Perseverance by Angela Duckworth – Explores how passion and perseverance can lead to success, despite limitations.

Chapter sixteen
The pursuit of ease, comfort, and Truth : navigating inner harmony

​Duration | 2 minutes 41 seconds
Complete Segment Time Stamp | 01:08:10

Synopsis
n this chapter, Dr. Symeon Rodger and Jamie Meyer explore the complex relationship between ease, comfort, and truth. Dr. Rodger explains how humans often strive for total ease, but are confronted with the challenges of life in a three-dimensional world, which he refers to as “trauma school Earth.” While complete freedom from struggle may not be possible, the way we perceive challenges plays a crucial role in the pain we experience. They discuss how different cultures perceive reality and truth in various ways, highlighting the subjective nature of truth and the importance of perspective in navigating life’s difficulties.

Dialogue Summary
Jamie Meyer: 
What is the difference between narrow self-interest and this understanding of self that we’ve been talking about for an hour and 34 minutes now?

Dr. Symeon Rodger: 
I’m not sure there’s an easy answer for that. We’re constantly striving for total ease, total comfort, but we live in a three-dimensional reality where that doesn’t seem to be the default setting. There are people who would say this reality, Earth, is not the most comfortable place. A friend of mine, who treats people who’ve gone through all kinds of trauma, refers to this as “trauma school Earth.” It’s about working through the craziness.
So, will we ever be totally free of that in a world with birth and death? Probably not. But a lot of it comes down to our perspective. Our perspective on what’s happening can cause us immense unnecessary pain if it’s the wrong one.

Jamie Meyer: 
And so that goes back to your point before about different cultures perceiving the same reality in different ways and then also the idea of truth. What is exactly the truth? Whose truth is the truth, the true truth?

Credits Roll

References
Narrow self-interest refers to the tendency of individuals or groups to prioritise their own immediate needs, desires, or benefits without considering the broader impact on others or the long-term consequences. It often leads to decisions that are self-serving at the expense of collective well-being or shared values.

Reading Recommendations
Outliers: The Story of Success by Malcolm Gladwell – Looks at how people can exceed perceived limitations through opportunity, effort, and support.

chapter seventeen
truth defined : searching beyond assumptions

Duration | 3 minutes 59 seconds
Complete Segment Time Stamp | 01:10:17
SynopsisIn this chapter, Dr. Symeon Rodger and Jamie Meyer explore the concept of truth, discussing the modern notion of a “post-truth world” and contrasting Western intellectual views of truth with other cultures’ perspectives. Dr. Rodger explains that truth in the West is often seen as a propositional, intellectual concept, while other cultures view it as the way things truly are, with a tangible, physical basis. They also delve into how different traditions, such as Taoism and early Christianity, approach truth and its inexpressible nature, emphasizing the importance of direct experience over rigid definitions. The chapter touches on the paradoxical nature of trying to define truth while acknowledging its ineffable qualities.
Dialogue SummaryDr. Symeon Rodger: 
It’s often said we live in a post-truth world, which is a real problem. It may build on the idea that the West typically has thought of truth as a proposition, like truth is an intellectual proposition. Whereas other cultures typically treat truth as the way things are. So truth has an actual sort of physical basis. Truth is the way things are.

The way the universe functions is true. Your idea about it, you may say, is a truth, but it’s inevitably not because your idea is always in a construct that’s partial. There’s no way of putting that truth into words. It can’t be done. And anyone who knows how to… Yeah. And systems that have been devised to navigate people to that greater reality around the world have always been very reluctant to describe them. So that’s why you have expressions like, you know, Taoism saying, the Tao that could be described is not the Tao.

Jamie Meyer: 
Right, so if you describe it, because it’s not the way.

Dr. Symeon Rodger: 
Yeah, it’s not the real thing, it’s your idea. That’s all it is. Or even, strangely enough, in early Christianity, in Eastern Christianity, there was an extreme reluctance to define things too carefully. So definitions, what were actually called dogmas, were not absolute statements of “this is the way it is.” They were statements of sort of “not this, not that.”

Okay, we just exclude alternatives that are off track, and the middle is where you want to be, but it is kind of amorphous, always leaving it open to experience. So the funny thing is, in that ancient Christian mystical tradition, the idea was if you haven’t had a direct experience of the absolute reality, you shouldn’t be talking about any of this stuff. You should just shut up and do the work to get yourself there and not pretend that you know. Not go off and teach at university or something like this.

Jamie Meyer: 
Hmm.

Dr. Symeon Rodger: 
So it becomes a little bit like— I mean, even in Roman Catholicism, which unfortunately developed into this extremely rationalistic version of Christianity. And a lot of that rationalism was partly built by Thomas Aquinas in the 13th century. But there is, you know, the story that, you know, people don’t want to tell, which is that Aquinas, eventually before he died, had a direct experience of the supreme divine love. And then he said, “Everything I’ve written is straw.” Garbage.
Of course, the Church didn’t want to tell that story. They wanted people to read what he wrote. So there you go.

Credits Roll

References
Roman Catholicism is the largest branch of Christianity, characterized by its traditions, doctrines, and practices, with a focus on the authority of the Pope, the importance of the sacraments, and the teachings of the Church as central to faith and moral life.

Thomas Aquinas was a 13th-century Dominican friar and theologian whose writings, particularly in Summa Theologica, integrated Aristotelian philosophy with Christian doctrine, laying the foundation for much of Western Catholic theology and philosophy.

Reading Recommendations
The One Thing by Gary Keller and Jay Papasan – A deep dive into how focusing on one priority at a time can simplify life and lead to extraordinary results.

chapter eighteen
beyond labels : tapping into Our Innact Intelligence 

Duration | 6 minutes 51 seconds
Complete Segment Time Stamp | 01:13:43
SynopsisJamie Meyer and Dr. Symeon Rodger explore how language and intellectual understanding limit our grasp of deeper truths. Dr. Rodger emphasises that true understanding is experiential, not intellectual, and that the body holds innate intelligence. They discuss how creativity and relaxed states—such as moments of quiet reflection—can unlock deeper insights and intuitive knowledge. By being more present, we can access this innate wisdom and reduce dissonance in our lives.

Dialogue SummaryJamie Meyer: 
We talk about dissonance and resistance and our avoidance of complexity and things that we don’t understand. Do you think it’s our inability to create a label, bind words, distinguish language for this version, this true version of reality that separates us from it so strongly?

Dr. Symeon Rodger: 
So you’re asking if there’s a language problem?

Jamie Meyer: 
Well, is it because we need language to be able to— we use language to understand something, right? And so if we don’t— if there— if words do not exist and it cannot be described, is it the fact that because we need language to really understand something and we can’t use it in this instance? Is that what creates such a division of us versus what this is?

Dr. Symeon Rodger: 
Um, maybe not necessarily. I think the word there that’s a problem is the word “understand,” right? Because we, especially in the West, we want to understand things intellectually. We want an intellectual structure. We want concepts. We want to be able to put something in a box and put a label on it. And here we’re dealing with things we can’t label. There is no box, and these things go beyond language. So what do you do? Well, the ancient solution to that was always to admit that understanding has to be lived. It has to be lived out, right? It’s experiential. It’s not in the head, which is why living in the head is actually unhelpful, right? Because the more you get into your body, the more you will understand what is being talked about. And, you know, there is a school of thought— “school” is too much of a rigid word—but there is a school of thought that basically says your body actually is incredibly intelligent. It has access to all knowledge. You have access to all knowledge. You just don’t know how to access your access, right? You’ve lost your library card or, you know, whatever analogy you want to use. Yeah, lost your password.

But, you know, if you take something like muscle testing, applied kinesiology or muscle testing, you know that whole thing where to find out if something is true, you come out with someone gives you a proposition and then they will test how strong your muscle is, right? And yes, if you’re deliberately lying, you will go weak. You will not be able to hold your arm up. They will push down on it easily. But it’s not only about deliberately lying— if your body will tell you and is capable of telling you what, in a sense, what’s true and what’s false, at least this is what researchers have found. Dr. David Hawkins was famous for this.

So at that point, you realise, okay, the body has incredible knowledge. It seems to know all these things yet— well, how do you tap into the body’s knowledge? Well, you’re certainly not going to tap into it by living in your head all day, in other words, stuck in your own conceptual world. You do have a fighting chance to dip into that once you live more in your body and, you know, people always talk about intuition and gut feeling, and gut feeling is very real. It really is gut. It really is that neural network in the gut. And what allows people to tap into that is a number of things. One certainly is living in the present moment, which people don’t do because we’re always “what’s next, what’s next?” We’re frenetic, right? What’s next? But when we live in the present moment, or when we’re being very creative, there’s a really hot tip— when we are creative, we engage a different mode in the brain, and our thoughts slow down. We become very absorbed.

We also become very open. And so when we are creative, we also feel really good. That’s a clue, right? If we feel really good, then this is probably the way we’re meant to be in a lot of the time. Because we sure as hell know that the frenetic state we’re in is feeling really bad, so that’s dissonance. That’s clearly an indication, okay, we probably shouldn’t be living there.
But being creative is part of that. It will get rid of a lot of that dissonance, make a person feel really good. And when you are in that creative mode, you’re very receptive. To give you an example— so, let’s say you’re trying to write an article. If you say to yourself, “Okay, I’m going to sit down tomorrow morning between nine and ten o’clock, and I’m going to write a super amazing article.” And you sit there and you have total writer’s block, and you feel absolutely miserable, and nothing comes to you, and you’re just trying to force it. And, you know, people have had that experience.

And yet, you know, some other time, you could be just sitting back, looking at the sunset, and all kinds of super ideas for this article would come to you.

Jamie Meyer: 
I am so guilty of that, in the shower.

Dr. Symeon Rodger: 
No, it’s— but that’s right. That’s a lot of history’s even great inventions have come— have come to the inventor when the inventor was in the shower or the bathtub or just on the cusp of waking up or just on the cusp of falling asleep, or sitting on the toilet, not thinking about anything or, you know, in all these sort of states where there’s no expectation, where the mind is just totally relaxed and maybe not thinking about anything particular, and then you start almost unconsciously to ruminate, think about this topic. And all kinds of stuff comes to you.

Right? So it’s— it’s being able— it is very much that that creativity is related to that state that we want to be in more and more.

Credits Roll

References
Simplicity refers to the quality of being clear, straightforward, and easy to understand or do. In the context of personal development or philosophy, it often suggests a focus on essential elements, avoiding unnecessary complexity.

Complexity involves intricate, multifaceted components that are often interrelated, requiring deeper understanding or analysis to navigate. It reflects the idea that many systems or ideas cannot be fully understood at surface level and require careful dissection.

Complicated refers to something that is made more difficult than it needs to be, often due to overthinking or excessive detail. While complex systems can be intricate and layered, complicated situations tend to be convoluted without added value.

Intellectual Understanding refers to grasping concepts or ideas through rational thought and logical reasoning. It involves processing information with the mind, often without engaging emotional or somatic awareness.

Kinesiology is the scientific study of body movement, exploring how muscles, bones, and joints work together to produce physical motion. It plays a key role in understanding human movement and improving performance and rehabilitation.

Dr. David Hawkins was a psychiatrist, physician, and spiritual teacher known for his work in consciousness research and the development of a “Map of Consciousness.” His books, such as Power vs. Force, examine the relationship between human consciousness and spiritual development, proposing a scale for measuring levels of consciousness. www.powervsforce.com and www.veritaspub.com

Reading Recommendations
Essentialism: The Disciplined Pursuit of Less by Greg McKeown – A guide to focusing on what truly matters in life, reducing the complexity of personal growth and development.

chapter nineteen
the art of creation : fostering true creativity 

Duration | 1 minute 49 seconds
Complete Segment Time Stamp | 01:20:00

SynopsisJamie Meyer and Dr. Symeon Rodger discuss how creativity extends beyond traditional art forms and can be applied to all aspects of life. Dr. Rodger emphasizes that life itself is a form of creation. By adopting an open, positive expectation of reality, we engage in creative acts. Whether through art, sports, or everyday tasks, creativity is about intentionality and mindset, with infinite possibilities for how it manifests.

Dialogue SummaryJamie Meyer: 
That idea of creativity can be applied to just about anything based on our perspective of the task in hand.

Dr. Symeon Rodger: 
I think it’s absolutely true. I mean, in a sense, think about it like we’re what we’ve talked about, we’re creating our lives, right? So life itself is creation and if we choose to have that sort of open expectation, that positive expectation of reality, that’s being creative. That’s doing something with deliberate intentionality. And so everything we do has this sort of possibility to be creative. I mean, some people’s canvases, like Michael Jordan, the great basketball player, the basketball court was his canvas. You know, so everybody has a different canvas. There is almost no limit to what creativity can encompass. And again, you know, as you say, people think, well, creativity, oh, uh, painting, sculpture, uh, you know, no, but it’s so much more than that. It can be anything that puts you into that frame of mind, really.

Credits Roll

References
Creativity is the ability to generate new and original ideas, solutions, or artistic expressions. It involves thinking outside conventional boundaries and using imagination to create something novel, often resulting in innovative concepts, works of art, or problem-solving approaches.

Reading Recommendations
The Creative Habit: Learn It and Use It for Life by Twyla Tharp – A practical guide to fostering creativity in all aspects of life.

chapter twenty
simplicity in growth : removing development's complexity 

Duration | 6 minute 55 seconds
Complete Segment Time Stamp | 01:21:15
SynopsisIn this chapter, Jamie Meyer and Dr. Symeon Rodger explore the concept of personal development and growth through the lens of simplicity. They discuss how development should involve layers of experience, incorporating thought, body, and spirit to create depth. However, Dr. Rodger warns against overcomplicating the process, where people often fall into the trap of trying to learn too many techniques at once, leading to overwhelm rather than progress. He shares a story about a Tai Chi master who emphasises the value of focusing on foundational principles and going deep rather than broad. Both agree that the key to true growth lies in mastering simple, core principles and finding what resonates personally, rather than trying to learn every method available.

Dialogue SummaryJamie Meyer: 
We started this conversation talking about advancement and different avenues of development and understanding. Something that’s kind of come up from me throughout the evolution of that conversation is that really what we’re looking for is more layers. So whatever we’re doing needs to be more layered. Whether it’s we start with the thought process, we need to introduce the body, we need to introduce an energetic or spiritual understanding of that one thing. Instead of doing everything with one part of ourselves, we really need to do anything with all parts of ourselves. And that’s what creates the depth or the semblance of what you’re describing as available through the Tao, Tai Chi, and Qigong. Have I missed the mark, or am I kind of somewhere in the right realm?

Dr. Symeon Rodger: 
I think there are a lot of different ways, Jamie, of describing this, and that’s one of them, for sure. Yeah, it’s more depth, more layers of ourselves. Yeah, we want to connect with more layers of ourselves. Certainly, things that are very somatic, like Tai Chi and Qigong, are examples, yoga to a certain extent, other things can help with that, for sure. One of the traps is that it can become, and I think you alluded to this earlier with personal development, it can become an endless litany of things to do. Okay, if I want to develop personally, I have to have time for meditation, Tai Chi, yoga, tapping, this, that… Pretty soon, you’re spending theoretically 24 hours of your day doing these things, and you don’t have time for sleep.

Jamie Meyer: 
Or a job. You don’t have time to make any money.

Dr. Symeon Rodger: 
No, exactly. As you said, we like to complicate things. Part of that complication is looking at all these things and saying, “What? You have to do this. I have to do that.” You end up with a to-do list, and then you feel more stressed because of the to-do list. That seems counterintuitive, doesn’t it? Well, yes, it is. Maybe what might help is another story from this particular Tai Chi master I referenced—kind of a fun one—where he takes people down a peg. At one point, people were training with their partners, doing various things, and he stopped the whole class and said, “Look, I just had someone come up to me and ask if I could teach them this form or that form or this other Qigong set. I understand that in your culture, you’re all about complexity. You want to learn a whole lot of stuff. You want the whole thing. You want the slow form, the fast form, three versions of each, six different Qigong sets. But you’ve got to stop going broad. If you want actual progress, go deep.”

He continued, Traditionally, when this was originally being taught, there were people who would never be allowed to see the Tai Chi form for the first years they were training. They wouldn’t even be allowed to see it. All they did for the first six months was stand in a low horse stance for hours a day, which developed an enormously strong lower body. That’s foundation number one. After that, they might spend six months doing nothing but projecting power, issuing power, which is something you do in combat. He used one particular movement as an example. And he said, ‘There are some people who will do nothing but that for six months. You might know more about Tai Chi than that person, but that person can throw any of you through a wall. So who knows Tai Chi better—him or you?’” Because they’ve gone very, very deep into very specific principles.

Jamie Meyer: 
So it’s about simplicity?

Dr. Symeon Rodger: 
Exactly. Principles can always be condensed into simplicity. There’s no end to complexity. Even something like Tibetan Buddhism falls victim to this. The number of meditation systems is blinding—absolutely crazy. And yet, you go back to the person who actually brought Vajrayana Buddhism from India to Tibet, Padmasambhava, who says, “Forget all that. Here’s one thing.”

Jamie Meyer: 
Take the concept that all of those differentials exist so that for every person, there is an idea—one thing—that works for them. They don’t exist so we learn them all, but so that one person can find the thing that suits their being, their way of being, the best.

Dr. Symeon Rodger: 
Yes, ancient systems talk about it in that way. There are different things for different groups of people because they have different orientations. Find what works for you, what resonates with you. It’s about finding what works for you, and then always going back to the basic principles. Principles can always be reduced to simplicity.
​
Credits Roll

chapter twenty one
the limits of imitation : discovering genuine progress 

Duration | 3 minute 15 seconds
Complete Segment Time Stamp | 01:27:37
SynopsisIn this chapter, Dr. Symeon Rodger and Jamie Meyer discuss the importance of embracing individuality in the learning and practice of somatic disciplines like Tai Chi and Qigong. Dr. Rodger emphasises the need to avoid mimicking external movements and instead encourages practitioners to explore and feel their bodies from the inside out. He warns against relying too much on external feedback, especially from less experienced teachers, and advocates for a more personal, experimental approach to discovering one’s unique expression of the practice. Jamie Meyer adds that rigid templates or cookie-cutter methods cannot define one’s full potential; true progress comes from internal exploration and self-awareness. The chapter highlights that while external guidance may introduce a practice, real mastery and growth are internal and personal journeys.
Dialogue SummaryDr. Symeon Rodger: 
The one thing you never want to say to yourself is, “I’m probably doing this wrong.” Uh, and it goes to like, if you know, when we’re doing things that are very somatic, very bodily embodied, like Tai Chi and Qigong, the tendency is to mimic. Right?

So if I’m moving in a certain way, there’s a tendency to want to mimic. I look at you externally and I think, okay, how do I do that? It goes like, uh, no, no, no. Go into your body, try different things, see how each one feels, and don’t tell yourself anything is wrong, right or wrong. If there are such things, you will discover them. But go into your body, you have to feel your body from the inside out. That’s the whole point. The whole point is internal to the outside. It is not, let me mimic this. Okay, yeah, if you’re learning a Tai Chi form, you start off by kind of, uh, mimicking. Okay, it’s Yang style and this is, uh, the single whip goes like this, okay, um, very nice. Um, but that isn’t the movement. That’s an external of the movement. You have to, at a certain point, go into your own body and be willing to play and be willing to, you know, if somebody comes up to you and says, oh, it isn’t quite it. It’s a little bit more like this. Low-level teachers say that typically. You have to be able to go in and play and experiment and live inside your own body, and be somewhat immune to people’s criticisms, especially people who are less than masters. Uh, their criticisms of, oh, you’re doing this too fast, or you’re doing this too slow, or you’re doing this, or this arm is too high, or this arm is too low, or this is… Yeah. Ignore it.

Jamie Meyer: 
The format or the cookie-cutter or the template cannot be your… the height of your potential in that particular instance.

Dr. Symeon Rodger: 
Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. You’ve caught the copy and it gets you an introduction, but that’s all it is, gets you in the door. The rest is an inside job. And it’s very liberating, and it’s very true.

Credits Begin to Roll

Jamie Meyer: 
Most people like do not try this at home. Symeon and I are like try all these things at home.

Final Credits Roll

References
Somatic refers to anything related to the body, particularly in terms of bodily sensations, movements, and experiences. It is often used in the context of practices or therapies that focus on the physical aspect of human experience and how the body holds and expresses emotions, trauma, and consciousness.

Embodied refers to the expression or manifestation of an experience, feeling, or concept through the body. It emphasises the connection between mind and body, suggesting that physical sensations and movements are integral to understanding and integrating emotional and psychological states.